Time to go?

Time to go?

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Messages
19,054
#3
Never thought I'd feel like this, but I'm leaning towards going. Just heard too much first-hand about the ridiculous amounts of money wasted, e.g. a former colleague from Latin America who as part of her EU job got a trip home PAID FOR once a year, people going on jollies for all sorts of spurious reasons etc. No way should Turkey be allowed to become a member, either.
 
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720
#4
Its time to go. We need to be able to make our own rules and laws which are better for our country not what other people from other countries decide is best for us as they will only look out for what is best for their own country not ours. As for Turkey if we are still in the EU when Turkey become a member then God help us. I lived there for a few years and met thousands of men who all asked to marry me or for me to marry their sons or brothers just so they could get to the UK. In Turkey there is some real poverty you only have to look at Adana or Batman (yes a real place) and some people live in hovels with no health care and barely enough food. One weeks dole money here would feed a family and pay for healthcare over there so loads of men will come here for benefits to help their families
 
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#9
The EU will implode on itself very soon.

I would love to leave but no politician gas the balls to stand up and run a truly independent Britain.
 
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#10
I want to know the results of the UK Government's attempts to reform the conditions for our membership of the EU, before I decide ho I'll vote in the referendum.
 
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#11
Done to death on the other site. The EU is a bureaucratic mess, but it confers far too many benefits to it's members.

For me the worst case scenario is the EU collapses - if that happens, given that they are our largest trade partner we will be screwed regardless of whether we are in or out. Us exiting the EU will simply hasten it's demise, and we can't avoid being dragged down with it.

Better to be in it, commit to it, live up to our potential as one of it's strongest members and guide it's future, than exit and then do the typical English thing of whining about how the failure of the EU wasn't our fault when they drag us down.
 
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#12
Be careful of what you wish for. What we should be pushing for is reform within the EU.

Leaving the EU will have a significant impact on the UK. We are far too intertwined to pull out now.

Should have adopted the Scandinavian model
 
#13
We should have got out when we had the chance in 1975.
Thatcher and the Tories were all for Europe back then while it was the likes of Benn and the TUC who wanted us out as they could forsee the bureaucratic claptrap 40 years ago.
 
I

IndigoRose

Guest
#14
I can't vote because I'm one of those horrible migrants... Even though I've been here since I was five months old. Leaving the EU could have disastrous consequences for me - the government have stayed very quiet on what they intend to do with the migrants who have nowhere else to go. Somehow I doubt my job will be considered honest enough for them to let me stay after I graduate... I dislike the EU as an institution but overall I think we can do more to reform it from within than outside - some of the horrible things set to happen (TTIP etc) are going to happen anyway regardless of if we leave or remain. It will also be complete chaos for academia, hence new campaigns like Scientists for EU. As far as I can see, the leave campaign is just full of bullshit stats and vitriol, and some of the remain campaign is just delusional and optimistic. I don't think we have much of a chance of reforming it either if I'm being honest, but I sure as hell wouldn't vote to leave under this government - I'd wait until we have a government I can trust to protect me rather than removing the one barrier that stands between me and unjust deportation (and for the rest of you - the barrier between you and a lack of human rights, worker's rights, etc.) I understand wanting independence and freedom to do what we wish, but do you really trust the Tories that much? That argument only makes sense if you've been happy with their decisions so far. For starters, we don't even have a democratic voting system ffs.
 
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Messages
4,400
#15
I'm not a racist but I am a spacist.

We simply haven't got the space to accommodate more people.

Are we supposed to concrete over all of our green countryside to provide housing for an endless number of new arrivals? We won't have a Britain left.

We haven't got the space to house EU migrants nor African migrants nor Arab migrants.

The average price of an average house in London is already £500,000, we just can't take more people.

We need to leave the EU so that we can take control of our own borders.
 
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I

IndigoRose

Guest
#16
I'm not a racist but I am a sp I aacist.

We simply haven't got the space to accommodate more people.

Are we supposed to concrete over all of our green countryside to provide housing for an endless number of new arrivals? We won't have a Britain left.

We haven't got the space to house EU migrants nor African migrants nor Arab migrants.

The average price of an average house in London is already £500,000, we just can't take more people.

We need to leave the EU so that we can take control of our own borders.
Sources? Shelter found that there are 279,000 long-term privately owned empty homes in England alone. I'd also like concrete proof that our current border system is unsustainable with regards to migration. I also still stand by my statement that I trust the EU more than I do the Tories (even with this issue) and that regardless of the ~space~ you may or may not have for me, I've been here since I was 5 months old and deserve to remain.
 
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#17
Nobody is talking of deporting people who are already here.

But we need to take control of our own borders to prevent future arrivals.
 
#18
Sources? Shelter found that there are 279,000 long-term privately owned empty homes in England alone. I'd also like concrete proof that our current border system is unsustainable with regards to migration. I also still stand by my statement that I trust the EU more than I do the Tories (even with this issue) and that regardless of the ~space~ you may or may not have for me, I've been here since I was 5 months old and deserve to remain.
I see lots of lovely derelict properties all the time, it's scandalous that they can be left to rot.
 
I

IndigoRose

Guest
#19
Nobody is talking of deporting people who are already here.

But we need to take control of our own borders to prevent future arrivals.
Yeah they are actually, I've been told so many times, ever heard of the "send them back" campaign? The government haven't responded either way so I have legitimate reason to fear an EU departure (leaving out all of the other reasons of course).

Thanks for those sources about the clear flood we'll have of new arrivals, I am definitely 100% convinced now. ;) Nah, until I see concrete stats suggesting that we'll have too many to handle, I'm not really buying that it's a strong enough argument for us to leave. It certainly doesn't outweigh the protections we currently get from remaining - the more the EU can do to block this government's horrible decisions, the better.

If we had a good government in charge my position would be totally different - we leave and open/close our borders as and when is statistically necessary. I'm all about that evidence-based policy yo, if politicians started to listen to actual science then we'd have complete decriminalisation of sex work too. But nah, instead they're leaning towards the Nordic model.. I wonder why? Maybe because they buy into all the scaremongering.. Now, what can we learn from that that we can apply to the argument on the EU?

Facts over feelings, people. Show me the receipts.
 
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15,292
#20
Yeah they are actually, I've been told so many times, ever heard of the "send them back" campaign? The government haven't responded either way so I have legitimate reason to fear an EU departure (leaving out all of the other reasons of course).

Thanks for those sources about the clear flood we'll have of new arrivals, I am definitely 100% convinced now. ;) Nah, until I see concrete stats suggesting that we'll have too many to handle, I'm not really buying that it's a strong enough argument for us to leave. It certainly doesn't outweigh the protections we currently get from remaining - the more the EU can do to block this government's horrible decisions, the better.

If we had a good government in charge my position would be totally different - we leave and open/close our borders as and when is statistically necessary. I'm all about that evidence-based policy yo, if politicians started to listen to actual science then we'd have complete decriminalisation of sex work too. But nah, instead they're leaning towards the Nordic model.. I wonder why? Maybe because they buy into all the scaremongering.. Now, what can we learn from that that we can apply to the argument on the EU?

Facts over feelings, people. Show me the receipts.
I would be completely out of my depth getting involved in the specifics of EU membership , my comment only relates to your closing gambit.

I do think that many people with a sense of national pride and patriotism will instinctively rally to a cause that they believe will bring greater independence and rid them of the yoke of some great oppressor , even if in reality it may be detrimental to do so ; pride often comes before a fall.

The Scottish vote for independence from the UK probably contained similar themes.There was a lot of posturing and Braveheart face paint but in the end they took the sensible option and the vote was conclusive.Perhaps , just the fact that they had the vote and the choice to stay or leave satiated national pride, and in the end common sense prevailed.
 
#21
I want to know the results of the UK Government's attempts to reform the conditions for our membership of the EU, before I decide ho I'll vote in the referendum.
I thought exactly the same way as you UNTIL I saw the list of Cameron`s demands as they have been presented to the EU. As far as I am concerned those demands are neither use nor ornament, and it is obvious that Cameron is not going to try very hard to get us out. The three most important demands are ignored, namely (1) Full control over immigration, which won`t be solved merely by tinkering over benefit payments to immigrants; (2)The supremacy of our Courts and their right to ignore decisions of the European Court; (3) The Supremacy of our Parliament over the acceptance or otherwise of repressive and pettyfogging rules and regulations made by the bureaucracy of the unelected Commissars in Brussels.

It is quite obvious to me now that the result of Cameron`s negotiations is irrelevant - our grievances are not going to be addressed because Cameron simply has not presented them. I WANT OUT NOW.

When Cameron tells the country that the EU has met his demands and that he supports remaining in EU, with luck the voters will see that his attempts have simply been a smokescreen, he will lose, he will have to resign, and it will be entirely his own fault.
 
I

IndigoRose

Guest
#22
Aurora - I think Scotland should have left (I was raised there) but again, coming from the angle of believing that we should try to avoid Tory rule at all costs. I get where you're coming from - from a sociological perspective IMO that is entirely the thinking going on here - but that doesn't mean it's correct.
 
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