Is it my perception or is there now a general drift back to punting and escorting?

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Also, I find comparisons with flu irritating and misleading. We pretty much know the epidemiology and pathology of flu viruses. More than 6 months in, we're still learning a lot about SARS-CoV-2, for example a new thing is 'Long COVID'. Why is it killing some young and otherwise healthy people? How is it affecting the liver, kidneys, circulatory system, cognition etc.? It is NOT like the flu, even severe types.
Indeed. Flu viruses have a transient effect, while coronaviruses (SARS, MERS, CV-19) can result in chronic illness and disability in a proportion of those who live through it.

I took the above comments as relating solely to death rate comparisons rather than the nature of the pathogen.
 
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Well just out of interest I stuck the government's figures into my probability calculations. I was curious to see how the government's view of national infection rate impacted the probabilities and also impact of high vs low volume. It's just a simple mathematical model and doesn't take into many other relevant factors.

A probability that an event will definitely happen is 1 and that it definitely won't happen is 0.

Using today's government figure of 1 in 3900 (a few weeks ago)being infected gives probability of a person being infected = 0.0003

That means there's an 99.9997% (1 - 0.003 = 0.9997) chance that a single punter won't be infected.

Escort A - sees 1 punter a day and works for 6 days in a week

All independent events, the same probability for each day.

Probability(Monday's Punter is not infected) = 0.9997

Probability(Tuesday's Punter is not infected) = 0.9997

Probability(Wednesday's Punter is not infected) = 0.9997

Probability(Thursday's Punter is not infected) = 0.9997

Probability(Friday's Punter is not infected) = 0.9997

Probability(Saturday's Punter is not infected) = 0.9997

Probability(Monday's Punter not infected AND Tuesday's not infected AND Wednesday's not infected AND Thursday's not infected AND Friday's not infected AND Saturday's not infected) = 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 = 0.998201 = 99.82%

Escort B - sees 5 punters a day and works 6 days a week.

Probability(All of Monday's punters are not infected) = 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 = 0.998501

Probability(All of Tuesday's punters are not infected) = 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 = 0.998501

Probability(All of Wednesday's punters are not infected) = 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 = 0.998501

Probability(All of Thursday's punters are not infected) = 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 = 0.998501

Probability(All of Friday's punters are not infected) = 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 = 0.998501

Probability(All of Saturday's punters are not infected) = 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 = 0.998501

Probability (Monday's punters not infected AND Tuesday's not infected AND Wednesday's not infected AND Thursday's not infected AND Friday's not infected AND Saturday's not infected) = 0.991039

Conclusion

Escort A has a 99.85% chance of not having seen an infected punter in a week.

Escort B has a 99.1039% chance of not having seen an infected punter in a week.
Not this again :)
 
As I recall, when I mentioned the flu epidemic in 2015 that's thought to have claimed around 28,000 lives in the UK, you said that you hadn't even known about it.

I was 2 years old in 1968/69...the flu season then claimed a staggering 80,000 lives here. There was no lockdown, no social distancing, not much mask wearing, and I doubt it gained wall to wall media coverage. I only know about it because during this pandemic I've done a bit of research...my parents never told me about it.
I never claimed otherwise. I simply said that that part of your statement is silly.

Also, I very rarely pay attention to the news. Not everyone is like me. There would have been some people who knew, and abstained.
 
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Also, I find comparisons with flu irritating and misleading. We pretty much know the epidemiology and pathology of flu viruses. More than 6 months in, we're still learning a lot about SARS-CoV-2, for example a new thing is 'Long COVID'. Why is it killing some young and otherwise healthy people? How is it affecting the liver, kidneys, circulatory system, cognition etc.? It is NOT like the flu, even severe types.
Why are comparisons to flu irritating...it spreads in the same way, it kills in the same way, and some strains of flu kill healthy young people. Many diseases can cause long term health problems, and intubation has been linked to multiple organ failure...if only doctors treating Covid-19 knew that Google was their friend. As for the 'Long Covid' sufferers I've seen on TV...most seem like 15 minuters or hypochondriacs.
 
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Why are comparisons to flu irritating...it spreads in the same way, it kills in the same way, and some strains of flu kill healthy young people. Many diseases can cause long term health problems, and intubation has been linked to multiple organ failure...if only doctors treating Covid-19 knew that Google was their friend. As for the 'Long Covid' sufferers I've seen on TV...most seem like 15 minuters or hypochondriacs.
Initially CV-19 was believed to be a respiratory disease, with acute respiratory distress syndrome its principal symptom and a corresponding belief that many patients would require mechanical ventilation. However, out there beyond Google, medical scientists and clinicians were properly researching and dealing with the virus and its effects at an unprecedented pace. It was (and continues to be) better characterised and its broader pathology gradually understood, and by mid April mechanical ventilation was being used more cautiously. Those people who continued to need intubation and mechanical ventilation were those most ill who would've certainly died without it. I've seen a number pull through because they received this and the organ support they needed.

Just like CV-19, the flu has several ways of killing someone; some of these are similar between both virus types, and some are very different. They are however, very different forms of pathogen.

It's early for CV-19 (and most requiring intensive / critical care require a long period of rehabilitation anyway), but as I've said previously there's long-term data on SARS and MERS to know that a proportion of people experience chronic illness and disability.
 
Initially CV-19 was believed to be a respiratory disease, with acute respiratory distress syndrome its principal symptom and a corresponding belief that many patients would require mechanical ventilation. However, out there beyond Google, medical scientists and clinicians were properly researching and dealing with the virus and its effects at an unprecedented pace. It was (and continues to be) better characterised and its broader pathology gradually understood, and by mid April mechanical ventilation was being used more cautiously. Those people who continued to need intubation and mechanical ventilation were those most ill who would've certainly died without it. I've seen a number pull through because they received this and the organ support they needed.

Just like CV-19, the flu has several ways of killing someone; some of these are similar between both virus types, and some are very different. They are however, very different forms of pathogen.

It's early for CV-19 (and most requiring intensive / critical care require a long period of rehabilitation anyway), but as I've said previously there's long-term data on SARS and MERS to know that a proportion of people experience chronic illness and disability.
You can't deny that we were led to believe that MOF and CSS were somehow unique to Covid-19 patients being treated in ICU. The minimal amount of research shows this is not the case. Indeed it's not uncommon at all regardless of how the patient ended up in ICU...injury, non-infectious disease, as well as both bacterial and viral infections.
 
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Our understanding of CV-19, its effects, and how to treat its symptoms has been constantly evolving, and some of the early assumptions were clearly not accurate. It's also a disease with a variety of potential effects rather than having a characteristic disease process.

I'm not sure what you felt you were led to believe, but that would be a combination of science, media, politics, and social media. Pandemics are unusual in the respect that they have those multiple inputs delivered at population level. Information can quickly become misinformation.
 
Well just out of interest I stuck the government's figures into my probability calculations. I was curious to see how the government's view of national infection rate impacted the probabilities and also impact of high vs low volume. It's just a simple mathematical model and doesn't take into many other relevant factors.

A probability that an event will definitely happen is 1 and that it definitely won't happen is 0.

Using today's government figure of 1 in 3900 (a few weeks ago)being infected gives probability of a person being infected = 0.0003

That means there's an 99.9997% (1 - 0.003 = 0.9997) chance that a single punter won't be infected.

Escort A - sees 1 punter a day and works for 6 days in a week

All independent events, the same probability for each day.

Probability(Monday's Punter is not infected) = 0.9997

Probability(Tuesday's Punter is not infected) = 0.9997

Probability(Wednesday's Punter is not infected) = 0.9997

Probability(Thursday's Punter is not infected) = 0.9997

Probability(Friday's Punter is not infected) = 0.9997

Probability(Saturday's Punter is not infected) = 0.9997

Probability(Monday's Punter not infected AND Tuesday's not infected AND Wednesday's not infected AND Thursday's not infected AND Friday's not infected AND Saturday's not infected) = 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 = 0.998201 = 99.82%

Escort B - sees 5 punters a day and works 6 days a week.

Probability(All of Monday's punters are not infected) = 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 = 0.998501

Probability(All of Tuesday's punters are not infected) = 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 = 0.998501

Probability(All of Wednesday's punters are not infected) = 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 = 0.998501

Probability(All of Thursday's punters are not infected) = 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 = 0.998501

Probability(All of Friday's punters are not infected) = 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 = 0.998501

Probability(All of Saturday's punters are not infected) = 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 = 0.998501

Probability (Monday's punters not infected AND Tuesday's not infected AND Wednesday's not infected AND Thursday's not infected AND Friday's not infected AND Saturday's not infected) = 0.991039

Conclusion

Escort A has a 99.85% chance of not having seen an infected punter in a week.

Escort B has a 99.1039% chance of not having seen an infected punter in a week.

I tend to look at the risk of engaging in paid sex encounters right now in a simpler, more straightforward way.

it seems to me that the risk of catching COVID from a booking is either 100 percent or zero percent. If neither person has it, it’s zero* but if one of the two people has it, it’s probably close to 100 percent given the prolonged intimate contact during a booking.

* I guess it might not be zero even if neither person has it, as there’s also a small chance of getting it from surfaces if perhaps a former client was positive and left traces of it somewhere in the room, or even on the SP if she’s not able to wash thoroughly between bookings, for example.

Other factors complicate the risk calculus, such as the positivity rate where the booking occurs, assuming both parties are local and not touring, as well as the reality that many infected people can be either pre-symptomatic or asymptomatic.

I think for me given that I look at the risk as almost all or none, I’d probably need to see a very, very low prevalence rate of positive cases in London, or maybe even the whole of the country, in order to feel safe punting before a safe and effective vaccine is widely available and herd immunity is achieved.

But I don’t really knew how low of a prevalence rate is low enough for me to feel safe enough to resume punting, but maybe I’ll figure it out eventually.[/QUOTE]
 
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Leicester is probably more than 1 in 2300.

Nobody really knew anything about it. Everyone was and still is learning about it everyday. People did the best with the information and advice they had available at the time.
leicester is if I mind about 73 /100,000.......down from circa 120/100,000...?
 
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I saw that but I can't see how it relates to the national figure. Perhaps they do a figure for the whole of Leicester?
I think they said at the time it was 5x the national figure.........but its a changing scene......bit like wildfires in California.....they will flare up post lockdown an will need tae be extinguished wi special measures.....canny trust folk eh?....:unknown:
 
Well just out of interest I stuck the government's figures into my probability calculations. I was curious to see how the government's view of national infection rate impacted the probabilities and also impact of high vs low volume. It's just a simple mathematical model and doesn't take into many other relevant factors.

A probability that an event will definitely happen is 1 and that it definitely won't happen is 0.

Using today's government figure of 1 in 3900 (a few weeks ago)being infected gives probability of a person being infected = 0.0003

That means there's an 99.9997% (1 - 0.003 = 0.9997) chance that a single punter won't be infected.

Escort A - sees 1 punter a day and works for 6 days in a week

All independent events, the same probability for each day.

Probability(Monday's Punter is not infected) = 0.9997

Probability(Tuesday's Punter is not infected) = 0.9997

Probability(Wednesday's Punter is not infected) = 0.9997

Probability(Thursday's Punter is not infected) = 0.9997

Probability(Friday's Punter is not infected) = 0.9997

Probability(Saturday's Punter is not infected) = 0.9997

Probability(Monday's Punter not infected AND Tuesday's not infected AND Wednesday's not infected AND Thursday's not infected AND Friday's not infected AND Saturday's not infected) = 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 = 0.998201 = 99.82%

Escort B - sees 5 punters a day and works 6 days a week.

Probability(All of Monday's punters are not infected) = 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 = 0.998501

Probability(All of Tuesday's punters are not infected) = 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 = 0.998501

Probability(All of Wednesday's punters are not infected) = 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 = 0.998501

Probability(All of Thursday's punters are not infected) = 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 = 0.998501

Probability(All of Friday's punters are not infected) = 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 = 0.998501

Probability(All of Saturday's punters are not infected) = 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 x 0.9997 = 0.998501

Probability (Monday's punters not infected AND Tuesday's not infected AND Wednesday's not infected AND Thursday's not infected AND Friday's not infected AND Saturday's not infected) = 0.991039

Conclusion

Escort A has a 99.85% chance of not having seen an infected punter in a week.

Escort B has a 99.1039% chance of not having seen an infected punter in a week.
OK, so what are the odds if I wear a mask and use hand santitizer? ;)
 
- the NHS is not fit for purpose beyond frontline care provision. When the Army has to sort out the woeful ineptitude around supply that overpaid bureaucrats fucked up it's extremely telling, and don't even get me started about the cull of the elderly which the NHS management are complicit in.
Much of this thread has become a bit 'heavy going', but I can agree with this part. The NHS is brilliant at fixing people when they're broken, but their admin is an utter disgrace.
 
That makes for sobering reading.

There are three SP girls who are smoking hot and I'm really close to risking it, then I read that....I think I'll pass.



I have stopped, I have not punted this year. I had one planned with a WG I've seen before but It got can cancelled due to this business and I'm currently fighting my trouser master to not punt now.

So I have and I'm not a liar.
He's not talking about right now, he's talking about past events. Still, ridiculous to say that anyone who says otherwise is a liar.
 
Still, ridiculous to say that anyone who says otherwise is a liar.
Yeah...you're right actually. It's only now that I've really thought about it that I remember all the threads we've had about giving up punting and Escorting during flu season. Folk worrying they may be in the early stage of infection, or asymptomatic, and not wanting to kill an old person :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:.
 
Yeah...you're right actually. It's only now that I've really thought about it that I remember all the threads we've had about giving up punting and Escorting during flu season. Folk worrying they may be in the early stage of infection, or asymptomatic, and not wanting to kill an old person :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
You thinking you're right doesn't make you right. You remind me of someone else who loves to speak in absolutes.
 
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I appear to have developed all the symptoms of fear fatigue...not that I was ever terrified of catching the virus, but having been immersed in the petri dish that is public transport in London right up until lockdown, and without any solid info about how long you may remain infectious, I was more concerned about the possibility of passing it on to someone more vulnerable.

You won't find a more diligent observer of the rules and guidlines than me...I've lived like a monk for the past few months, at one stage my hair had grown so long around my bald patch I even began to resemble one. But there's nothing frivolous or casual about punting for me, being able to enjoy regular sex is an integral part of my life, it plays a role in both my physical and mental well-being, and I have absolutely no doubt the quality of my existence is diminished without it.

We also need to avoid falling into the trap of allowing ourselves to be labelled as disease spreaders by those who would like to have shut us down even before the pandemic. Plenty of non-essential businesses have continued to operate throughout lockdown, little action appears to have been taken even when employees have drawn attention to the lack of precautions...and such places appear to be the centres of outbreaks now.

I haven't returned to punting yet...but I won't be abstaining much longer. I won't bother reminding everybody again about the huge death tolls flu epidemics can bring, but anyone who says they stopped punting or Escorting during these events is a liar...and yes, you can have the flu and be asymptomatic.
If I had the sniffles of any type, I didn't punt. The flu isn't as lethal as Covid so I don't think it's a fair comparison.

We all need to do a risk assessment and decide what is best.

I've had covid and have antibodies but won't punt until it is clear that I cannot catch and or spread it again.

Some of my family members had to live away from their families, some friends and family are still dealing with the trauma of the disease.

I know the sacrifices they have made and my abstinence is a small price to pay. Including helping with plasma donations
 
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Yeah...you're right actually. It's only now that I've really thought about it that I remember all the threads we've had about giving up punting and Escorting during flu season. Folk worrying they may be in the early stage of infection, or asymptomatic, and not wanting to kill an old person :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:.
Apples and oranges. There are also flu vaccines.

If people want to punt, that's up to them, all these comparisons being made just sound like excuses to justify it.

We are all adults. Up to folk to decide what they want to do. They just need to be prepared for the consequences
 
some friends and family are still dealing with the trauma of the disease.
I get the sense that many people seem to think that if you get Covid, you either die or you recover and go back to normal, but so far that's not proven to be the case for many people. Even though the world only has about 6 or 7 months history with this pandemic, there have been many cases of people taking much longer to recover than might be expected. Of course the ones who were most critically ill and on ventilators might be expected to have chronic issues, but it's the more milder cases that in some ways scare me a bit more. Some of them still don't have their sense of taste or smell back, some are still fatigued months later, some have cognitive impairments. Apparently even younger people who weren't in hospital are showing significant lung damage on follow up xrays.

It really is unclear what the longer term impacts on health and well being are from getting this infection, and that does make me even more nervous about catching it than I would be with other infections.
 
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I get the sense that many people seem to think that if you get Covid, you either die or you recover and go back to normal, but so far that's not proven to be the case for many people. Even though the world only has about 6 or 7 months history with this pandemic, there have been many cases of people taking much longer to recover than might be expected. Of course the ones who were most critically ill and on ventilators might be expected to have chronic issues, but it's the more milder cases that in some ways scare me a bit more. Some of them still don't have their sense of taste or smell back, some are still fatigued months later, some have cognitive impairments. Apparently even younger people who weren't in hospital are showing significant lung damage on follow up xrays.

It really is unclear what the longer term impacts on health and well being are from getting this infection, and that does make me even more nervous about catching it than I would be with other infections.
Yup, that's my big concern. Long term impacts and the possibility of catching it again. Especially as the antibodies supposedly last only months.

The treatment protocols are getting better which is good, I'm just reluctant to go through that again, especially with the breathing. Felt like I was drowning.
 
If I had the sniffles of any type, I didn't punt. The flu isn't as lethal as Covid so I don't think it's a fair comparison.

We all need to do a risk assessment and decide what is best.

I've had covid and have antibodies but won't punt until it is clear that I cannot catch and or spread it again.

Some of my family members had to live away from their families, some friends and family are still dealing with the trauma of the disease.

I know the sacrifices they have made and my abstinence is a small price to pay. Including helping with plasma donations
Well I dare say we all know someone who's fallen victim to the virus, and most of us probably know someone who works in the NHS. A work colleague died after contracting Covid back in June...but he'd been seriously ill with a heart condition for a couple of years. An old friend is a doctor at a well known London hospital...she's five feet nothing, not a UK citizen, in a higher risk group herself, but didn't miss a shift throughout the peak...a hero indeed.

But let's be sensible about this...even if we'd all kept Escorting and punting we still wouldn't have caused as many deaths as releasing 25,000 untested patients into care homes.
 
That's exactly what they are...excuses and justification.
I don't need to make excuses...I've already explained what punting means to me. I stopped punting in March and am only now ready to resume. I had already been exposed to the risk while playing sardines on my daily commute. I find a lot of this ridiculous now, so we're vilified for punting or Escorting but it's fine to go and hug your Granny even though you have no idea if you have the virus or not.
 
I don't need to make excuses...I've already explained what punting means to me. I stopped punting in March and am only now ready to resume. I had already been exposed to the risk while playing sardines on my daily commute. I find a lot of this ridiculous now, so we're vilified for punting or Escorting but it's fine to go and hug your Granny even though you have no idea if you have the virus or not.
I'm not saying anything about the fact you may resume. I've already started working again.
 
I'm not saying anything about the fact you may resume. I've already started working again.
I know, which is why I'm a little puzzled you're talking about excuses. The key to keeping the death toll down is protecting the vulnerable. I have no intention of meeting up with anyone I know who's in a high risk group. Punters and Escorts who fall into the high risk groups shouldn't be thinking about resuming yet IMO. I've been back at work for some time now, but although I wear a mask during my commute there doesn't seem to be any definitive view on their effectiveness, I could be patient zero in a deadly outbreak just by sitting on the Tube...so should I not be going to work ?. If there's a second wave should we go back into full lockdown...well that's fine, but we'll be back in the fucking stone age when it's lifted.
 
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I know, which is why I'm a little puzzled you're talking about excuses. The key to keeping the death toll down is protecting the vulnerable. I have no intention of meeting up with anyone I know who's in a high risk group. Punters and Escorts who fall into the high risk groups shouldn't be thinking about resuming yet IMO. I've been back at work for some time now, but although I wear a mask during my commute there doesn't seem to be any definitive view on their effectiveness, I could be patient zero in a deadly outbreak just by sitting on the Tube...so should I not be going to work ?. If there's a second wave should we go back into full lockdown...well that's fine, but we'll be back in the fucking stone age when it's lifted.
at some point life has to go on allbeit wi checks and caveats......were all wiser now weve seen the potential devastation......Im sure for me itll be a punting bubble wi some hope that the sps will be sensible too...?
 
A lot of good information/views on here.
I had my first punt back this week, no penetration, kissing or oral either way. Basically a massage with full body contact and I have to admit it was brilliant, enjoyed it enormously.
Was with a regular and we were careful without it being functional/robotic, was good to be back, she knows what to say to me and what I like.
Obviously I could never say it was 100% safe for either of us but we did act sensibly and in all honesty I think there was as much chance of passing virus as there would be in the pub situations I've seen with beer gardens and private bbqs/parties etc where after a few pints people are losing their distancing, shouting and spreading droplets, arm around the shoulder etc etc.
I know my punt carried greater risks and I'm not deflecting but that is what I see all the time.
I'm not a prolific punter so will likely be another 3-4 weeks till I have another opportunity so will see where overall situation is then
 
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Well I dare say we all know someone who's fallen victim to the virus, and most of us probably know someone who works in the NHS. A work colleague died after contracting Covid back in June...but he'd been seriously ill with a heart condition for a couple of years. An old friend is a doctor at a well known London hospital...she's five feet nothing, not a UK citizen, in a higher risk group herself, but didn't miss a shift throughout the peak...a hero indeed.

But let's be sensible about this...even if we'd all kept Escorting and punting we still wouldn't have caused as many deaths as releasing 25,000 untested patients into care homes.
I will never forgive or forget Mr Johnson and his cronies for what they have done or for exposing NHS personnel to the disease without appropriate PPE.

Especially my uncle who came out of retirement to help at great risk to himself and my sister for the sacrifices she made and will make again when the second wave comes. Same sacrifices NHS workers, carers and essential services made.

I will never, ever forgive this govt for that and I hope there is an enquiry and where possible criminal negligence trials and convictions.

I made a decision for myself, will not judge anyone for their decisions and I've got a couple more plasma donations to do, so I'll be a monk for the foreseeable future.
 
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I will never forgive or forget Mr Johnson and his cronies for what they have done or for exposing NHS personnel to the disease without appropriate PPE.

Especially my uncle who came out of retirement to help at great risk to himself and my sister for the sacrifices she made and will make again when the second wave comes. Same sacrifices NHS workers, carers and essential services made.

I will never, ever forgive this govt for that and I hope there is an enquiry and where possible criminal negligence trials and convictions.

I made a decision for myself, will not judge anyone for their decisions and I've got a couple more plasma donations to do, so I'll be a monk for the foreseeable future.
seems like bozo is preempting any inquiry wi a blame game strike on £the scientific evidence" ref laura kunsberg interview the other day..........?.........does any one else think she is sex on legs?.........
 
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I will never forgive or forget Mr Johnson and his cronies for what they have done or for exposing NHS personnel to the disease without appropriate PPE.

Especially my uncle who came out of retirement to help at great risk to himself and my sister for the sacrifices she made and will make again when the second wave comes. Same sacrifices NHS workers, carers and essential services made.

I will never, ever forgive this govt for that and I hope there is an enquiry and where possible criminal negligence trials and convictions.

I made a decision for myself, will not judge anyone for their decisions and I've got a couple more plasma donations to do, so I'll be a monk for the foreseeable future.
I wouldn't be overly optimistic about any enquiry as they'll find ways to alter the facts and deflect blame. Instead of counting each glove separately they'll count the fingers separately. Ten times the PPE horrah!

Although the public support has been mainly lovely, I have avoided (and encouraged others to avoid) the whole "NHS hero" tag. Not so long ago another group of heroes faced an unprecedented challenge where there was only partial information necessary to manage it. Then look at how the London Fire Brigade fared in the Grenfell enquiry, while the companies, politicians, etc really responsible have so far escaped full scrutiny, exposure, and punishment.

The NHS's management of this will be questioned at a time and conditions favourable to this government, eg when there's some calculation of predicted non CV-19 deaths resulting from the allocation of resources and restrictions in other services due to virus, or waiting lists are long. This I feel is inevitable, and it's been disappointing to see some elements of it from specific members here over the last week or so.
 
I will never forgive or forget Mr Johnson and his cronies for what they have done or for exposing NHS personnel to the disease without appropriate PPE.

Especially my uncle who came out of retirement to help at great risk to himself and my sister for the sacrifices she made and will make again when the second wave comes. Same sacrifices NHS workers, carers and essential services made.

I will never, ever forgive this govt for that and I hope there is an enquiry and where possible criminal negligence trials and convictions.

I made a decision for myself, will not judge anyone for their decisions and I've got a couple more plasma donations to do, so I'll be a monk for the foreseeable future.
I reckon that's "if" and not "when".
 
Although I really enjoy FK, with a respiratory virus, that's the most risky thing to indulge in. So when I do return to punting (no plans yet) I might have to forego that element. :(
Noticed an agency website saying No Mouth to Mouth contact offered by girls ... just wondering how many agencies say this after you made booking. Its one thing putting me off, really love that part and not sure how I would restrain myself from doing it during booking.
 
Maybe mess about not wanting to be judged and more about being mindful that there is a pandemic and trying to be safe and cautious? Not everything is about perception...

But for me, I would have zero interest in seeing someone who punted during the height of a pandemic. It highlights a lack of regard for self or others and I am absolute about safety. Xx
I think reading this article would put most of us off "drifting back to punting".

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...im-still-dealing-with-pain-fatigue-and-misery
 
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I think reading this article would put most of us off "drifting back to punting".

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...im-still-dealing-with-pain-fatigue-and-misery
And if that doesn't make you hesitate, then maybe "Surviving the Virus: My Brother & Me" (9pm BBC1 next Wednesday) featuring twin doctors Chris and Xand van Tulleken might. Although they are very healthy looking 41 yr olds, whilst "recovering" from covid-19, Xand woke up with an irregular heart rate of 160 and ended up in hospital with his brother treating him and looking really upset at the potential risk to his brother's life. Xand's now on medication and might yet need a heart op.

It's not only old and infirm people at risk and survival doesn't always equate to "recovery".
 
I made a blog when I start ... but of course I start slowly with my loyal costume (in those who I can trust to respect hygiene measures and stay at home quiet and have no contact with more people) ... so my light it will not be green because they are not available to everyone (with the necessary apologies). Hope all is come to be good and well for can see more new peole
 
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I made a blog when I start ... but of course I start slowly with my loyal costume (in those who I can trust to respect hygiene measures and stay at home quiet and have no contact with more people) ... so my light it will not be green because they are not available to everyone (with the necessary apologies). Hope all is come to be good and well for can see more new peole
gonny be a best seller........I think a punting bubble is a good idea........if you can trust folk........:unknown:
 
gonny be a best seller........I think a punting bubble is a good idea........if you can trust folk........:unknown:
Yes I am only see the regular customer just now

They made me easy quarantine with gifts and flowers all ordered online

Yes can trust 100% I'm a lucky woman because everyone helped me with what they could while I was in quarantine .... and you didn't ask me for anything in return ... people with respect and soul ... and attention

And it certainly wouldn't endanger my safety
 
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Yes I am only see the regular customer just now

They made me easy quarantine with gifts and flowers all ordered online

Yes can trust 100% I'm a lucky woman because everyone helped me with what they could while I was in quarantine .... and you didn't ask me for anything in return ... people with respect and soul ... and attention

And it certainly wouldn't endanger my safety
youre a lucky lassie.....?.
 
I wasn't aware that "trusted regular" status made you or her immune to covid-19.:unknown: You learn something every day.
That one has baffled me for months. A "regular" is just as likely to have Covid as the next escort, and I'm as likely to have caught it as the next punter.
Trust is very important in this business but it provides no protection from the virus. From what I've read - and I've had a lot of time on my hands - intimate contact and especially kissing is about the best form of transmission Covid could ask for.

Infection rates are rising all over the place. I wonder why? :dash:
 
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That one has baffled me for months. A "regular" is just as likely to have Covid as the next escort, and I'm as likely to have caught it as the next punter.
Trust is very important in this business but it provides no protection from the virus. From what I've read - and I've had a lot of time on my hands - intimate contact and especially kissing is about the best form of transmission Covid could ask for.

Infection rates are rising all over the place. I wonder why? :dash:
I suspect many more people are catching it in pubs than in bookings (although I would agree a booking with somebody who has the virus would be a very high risk activity)

I think one advantage of a "regular" is that you would hope they would be more sensible in terms of letting you know/cancelling if they thought they may possibly be infected. It may not be the case - but i think you would hope that
 
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I wasn't aware that "trusted regular" status made you or her immune to covid-19.:unknown: You learn something every day.
I guess its stretching the line if you have sex wi several folk then you build up an immunity tae bugs......wi covid its different IMO just cutting down the odds if both parties are isolating after an encounter which I suspect is easier for a punter than a SP who is trying to restore some income..?
 
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That one has baffled me for months. A "regular" is just as likely to have Covid as the next escort, and I'm as likely to have caught it as the next punter.
Trust is very important in this business but it provides no protection from the virus. From what I've read - and I've had a lot of time on my hands - intimate contact and especially kissing is about the best form of transmission Covid could ask for.

Infection rates are rising all over the place. I wonder why? :dash:
to the last point about infection rates rising one line is there is more testing an more detection but I note that mass gatherings (parties socializing in pubs etc) amongst the under 35s is causing hotspots........also the symptoms are now breaking out in younger folk........no sure about ICU admissions but also there are more treatment routes than for the first few old guinea pigs that got it in march........?
 
very true which is why I think the risk associated wi this trade is high an "honour among thieves"?.......no sure about that....?
I appreciate there are people who need to go back to work as we all have expenses to cover, I really do. I just can’t see that any man needs laid so badly that they need to punt right now. My profile keeps changing as I keep moving my return to work date back, people seem to think because I’m a provider and they’re ready to punt, I’m fair game.
 
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I suspect many more people are catching it in pubs than in bookings (although I would agree a booking with somebody who has the virus would be a very high risk activity)

I think one advantage of a "regular" is that you would hope they would be more sensible in terms of letting you know/cancelling if they thought they may possibly be infected. It may not be the case - but i think you would hope that
I agree with you that regulars that I have had would let me know or cancel if they suspected they were infected, as would many other escorts I might never have met before. But no escort can let you know if they are asymptomatic - and that's the most dangerous aspect of covid-19.

I think increasing numbers of people seem to be believing the "irrational exuberance" from several contributors to this thread. Perhaps the most dangerously flawed contribution was Amluvver's attempt to show that the risks are very low by basing all his calculations on the published community infection rate. This is a community in which the vast majority are being socially responsible by social distancing, avoiding meeting people from other households indoors, etc - often at great personal sacrifice. The population that is relevant to Amluvver's calculation are those people who blatantly ignore all of the advice in the most extreme way possible. I suspect the infection rate within that group is vastly higher, but nobody can know for sure.

Perhaps I'd grasp at such feeble straws if I was wanting to convince myself that choosing to punt/work during the peak of the pandemic is an OK choice. I'd prefer to trust the NHS's "Advice for people who sell sex" that "Having sex or close contact with anyone except for a sexual partner that lives in your household, puts you at high risk of catching or passing on COVID-19 to other members of the public."
 
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I wasn‘t talking in the context of COVID. Trusted in the sense you’ve seen them before and not worried about being robbed. It puts you at ease I said.

I haven’t punted since last year.
Fair comment and I agree that I also feel at ease when visiting a regular.

I've been cautious and mainly limited myself to well reviewed SPs so, rightly or wrongly, I've never feared that I might be robbed. That's one extra neurosis I can definitely do without.:D
 
I suspect many more people are catching it in pubs than in bookings (although I would agree a booking with somebody who has the virus would be a very high risk activity)

I think one advantage of a "regular" is that you would hope they would be more sensible in terms of letting you know/cancelling if they thought they may possibly be infected. It may not be the case - but i think you would hope that
Oh, I agree with that. My comment was aimed at the general attitude that "it's all over" and we're fine to mingle. Judging by the specific local lockdown measures in Lancashire and Yorkshire, infections within households seem prevalent. I'd guess pubs are next and punting way lower, due to the relatively low numbers of people involved.
 
to the last point about infection rates rising one line is there is more testing an more detection but I note that mass gatherings (parties socializing in pubs etc) amongst the under 35s is causing hotspots........also the symptoms are now breaking out in younger folk........no sure about ICU admissions but also there are more treatment routes than for the first few old guinea pigs that got it in march........?
It is possible that more people who are asymptomatic or with very mild symptoms are being counted now. Hospital admissions are the the only consistent measure that's been counted and those figures are much lower than a couple of months ago. They don't seem to have started rising again but there could be a lag behind the new cases as it usually takes a while for symptoms to get to the hospital treatment stage.
 
I was busy before lockdown, but I would say since I’ve returned my enquires have doubled if not trebled, probably as other escorts similar to me (BBW) and in my area haven’t returned, yet!
To be honest with you, and I’m sure many of you feel the same, I’m sick to death of hearing about this virus!
 
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I was busy before lockdown, but I would say since I’ve returned my enquires have doubled if not trebled, probably as other escorts similar to me (BBW) and in my area haven’t returned, yet!
To be honest with you, and I’m sure many of you feel the same, I’m sick to death of hearing about this virus!
but what does that mean?......youre fed up hearing so you ignore it?.......:unknown:
 
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I was busy before lockdown, but I would say since I’ve returned my enquires have doubled if not trebled, probably as other escorts similar to me (BBW) and in my area haven’t returned, yet!
To be honest with you, and I’m sure many of you feel the same, I’m sick to death of hearing about this virus!
In the run-up to and just beyond the lockdown I was very encouraged, but not surprised, to see that almost all my favourite SPs were advertising that they had stopped working. But I was hugely disappointed to see a spike in AW feedback for one SP that tracked the spike in the outbreak (until AW turned off the booking system and removed that line of evidence of working further into the lockdown).

It sickened me to think that she was probably profiting from exploiting the absence of her local competitors who'd acted responsibly. This turns "virtue is it's own reward" completely on its head if you look at financial rewards. Hopefully responsible SPs were rewarded with a clear conscience because they knew they'd done the right thing and they found that they could sleep well at night!
 
In the run-up to and just beyond the lockdown I was very encouraged, but not surprised, to see that almost all my favourite SPs were advertising that they had stopped working. But I was hugely disappointed to see a spike in AW feedback for one SP that tracked the spike in the outbreak (until AW turned off the booking system and removed that line of evidence of working further into the lockdown).

It sickened me to think that she was probably profiting from exploiting the absence of her local competitors who'd acted responsibly. This turns "virtue is it's own reward" completely on its head if you look at financial rewards. Hopefully responsible SPs were rewarded with a clear conscience because they knew they'd done the right thing and they found that they could sleep well at night!
I am guessing this wasn't feedback for bookings prior to the lockdown, feedback can be left up to 1 month later?
 
I'd have much preferred to believe that, but from my experience and other evidence I fear not.
Like @Strawberryblonde has said there is a 4 week "window" for either party (SPs and punters) to give and receive AW FB before that window closes...

Pretty sure AW disabled all FB at the very end of March, and I've not personally seen any left for anyone in April, but could be wrong...
 
Like @Strawberryblonde has said there is a 4 week "window" for either party (SPs and punters) to give and receive AW FB before that window closes...

Pretty sure AW disabled all FB at the very end of March, and I've not personally seen any left for anyone in April, but could be wrong...
It was noticed 2nd April mentioned in a thread on a support forum, then a few weeks ago there was a day or two during which reverse bookings (I see them scroll around when I am on the AW messages(email) page) were visible again and then I noticed a profile mentioned in a thread on UKP did have feedback from those dates.

Conclusion is that the AW stopped the Escort booking system sometime up until even including 2nd April, then for whatever reason reopened for a day or two in June or July (can't remember the dates) during which some, a few profiles did attain feedback. Closed ever since.
 
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Like @Strawberryblonde has said there is a 4 week "window" for either party (SPs and punters) to give and receive AW FB before that window closes...

Pretty sure AW disabled all FB at the very end of March, and I've not personally seen any left for anyone in April, but could be wrong...
I'm pretty sure you're right about the feedback shutdown date. What an SP writes on and removes from their profile can also give worrying clues.

Nobody can be certain what is truly happening in the world of punt, it's possible I may be misreading the signs. But ultimately, we all just have to trust our instincts and accordingly.
 
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In the run-up to and just beyond the lockdown I was very encouraged, but not surprised, to see that almost all my favourite SPs were advertising that they had stopped working. But I was hugely disappointed to see a spike in AW feedback for one SP that tracked the spike in the outbreak (until AW turned off the booking system and removed that line of evidence of working further into the lockdown).

It sickened me to think that she was probably profiting from exploiting the absence of her local competitors who'd acted responsibly. This turns "virtue is it's own reward" completely on its head if you look at financial rewards. Hopefully responsible SPs were rewarded with a clear conscience because they knew they'd done the right thing and they found that they could sleep well at night!
it sickened you to think she was sxploiting her competitors, I really hope it didn’t give you sleepless nights! seriously 😩.
You don’t know people’s circumstances some of us have had no option, don’t start with all that clear conscience bollocks trying to make us have feel bad.
 
it sickened you to think she was sxploiting her competitors, I really hope it didn’t give you sleepless nights! seriously 😩.
You don’t know people’s circumstances some of us have had no option, don’t start with all that clear conscience bollocks trying to make us have feel bad.
furthermore, you are quick to have a dig at SPs working but you fail to mention those SSs that are seeing them 🤔
 
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furthermore, you are quick to have a dig at SPs working but you fail to mention those SSs that are seeing them 🤔
I've said previously that I do understand that some SPs may find themselves in a position where working appears to be the only option open to them and I've also said that I'd hate to find myself faced with that awful moral dilemma.

I've also previously said that I can think of no equivalent justification for SSs to be punting during these times. From my perspective that's totally irresponsible. I can't be clearer than that.
 
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Do you want to tell me where it actually says that I’m ignoring it? or do you mean because I’m working?
this is what you said.....
"
To be honest with you, and I’m sure many of you feel the same, I’m sick to death of hearing about this virus!
"
hence my question........?
 
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I'm probably going back into lockdown this week. Cases are rising in Preston again, and now there's the 'nuclear' option of over-50s being told to stay at home, which as well as affecting me would hit a lot of my potential clients.

I did have an emergency shag with the FWB today to be on the safe side!
 
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I'm probably going back into lockdown this week. Cases are rising in Preston again, and now there's the 'nuclear' option of over-50s being told to stay at home, which as well as affecting me would hit a lot of my potential clients.

I did have an emergency shag with the FWB today to be on the safe side!
I have a similar arrangement with a neighbour. We both work from home and used to coordinate shopping trips during the lockdown.

So, that suits me for the foreseeable future.
 
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